Jump to content
Robertsd

Lurker with a general idea but a lot of questions

Recommended Posts

So a friend of mine turned me onto this forum about a year ago. I have been lurking around trying to learn as much as I can. I am currently in the midst of putting a pool, hot tub, and gas fire pit in my back yard. I have been planning out my BBQ build for sometime learning from what others are doing.

 

My biggest question I have right now, as it really will effect the size of my build, is how close am I legally allowed to build my island to a fence. My BBQ will butt up to the fence (wood) so I want to go as close as I can legally, but without causing any sort of fire hazards. I live in the bay area, Calif.

 

Questions:

1) Does anyone know of a recent review of BBQ's in the $1500-2500 range? The most recent one I can find is from 2008.

2) I see people using some bendable blue piping for running wires. Where do they get this and what is it called?

 

Thanks in advance for anyones assistance.

 

Robert

 

Pics of my sketchup design coming soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So a friend of mine turned me onto this forum about a year ago. I have been lurking around trying to learn as much as I can. I am currently in the midst of putting a pool, hot tub, and gas fire pit in my back yard. I have been planning out my BBQ build for sometime learning from what others are doing.

 

My biggest question I have right now, as it really will effect the size of my build, is how close am I legally allowed to build my island to a fence. My BBQ will butt up to the fence (wood) so I want to go as close as I can legally, but without causing any sort of fire hazards. I live in the bay area, Calif.

 

Questions:

1) Does anyone know of a recent review of BBQ's in the $1500-2500 range? The most recent one I can find is from 2008.

2) I see people using some bendable blue piping for running wires. Where do they get this and what is it called?

 

Thanks in advance for anyones assistance.

 

Robert

 

Pics of my sketchup design coming soon.

 

Hi robert - not sure on the rules for building next to fences, but the blue bendy stuff is electrical conduit, they sell it at all home depots in the bay area. cheers, alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alan, Thanks for the elec info. I was just at my local HD and they don't have the blue stuff. Here they have gray. But I am sure it is the same. Is that blue stuff considered water proof? Do you really need something water proof assuming it will be enclosed in the island?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alan, Thanks for the elec info. I was just at my local HD and they don't have the blue stuff. Here they have gray. But I am sure it is the same. Is that blue stuff considered water proof? Do you really need something water proof assuming it will be enclosed in the island?

 

home depot in east palo alto has it in 1/2" and 3/4". my local ace hardware has it too. the grey stuff isn't as flexible if it's the stuff i am thinking of, so harder to get round those tighter 90 degree bends. the conduit itself is waterproof, but the junction boxes/connectors etc are not. as you say, it's in an island, so i don't think that it is an issue. although i have no idea what the building code says about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
home depot in east palo alto has it in 1/2" and 3/4". my local ace hardware has it too. the grey stuff isn't as flexible if it's the stuff i am thinking of, so harder to get round those tighter 90 degree bends. the conduit itself is waterproof, but the junction boxes/connectors etc are not. as you say, it's in an island, so i don't think that it is an issue. although i have no idea what the building code says about it.

 

Alan, thanks a lot. I will check out another HD near by. Think we have finally decided on the Weber S-660. Now I can actually finish my layout. I also think we are just going to forget code and put the BBQ as close to the fence (prob within a foot or two) as this gives me the most room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, another neighbor! I really don't know what I am talking about :ph34r: but I have only seen the "grey" conduit used when the wires go under the ground. Looking on Google, I think it is called ENT flex tubing. Still being in the "design stage" myself I would guess this stuff would be used with steel studs (?)

 

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My biggest question I have right now, as it really will effect the size of my build, is how close am I legally allowed to build my island to a fence. My BBQ will butt up to the fence (wood) so I want to go as close as I can legally, but without causing any sort of fire hazards. I live in the bay area, Calif.

Robert since you are not pulling permits I would not sweat it, but in cali we have egress and encroach codes, code always says any structure is so many feet from the property line, (call the city or county building department and ask them, whats the set back from the property line for a BBQ Island) remember that wood fence sits on the divider between you and whom ever, the side you see is yours the side the neighbor sees is theirs (even if you paid for the fence) he could sue your pants off if it ever starts fire.

 

So in light of that invite the neighbor over for a beer and some BBQ :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert since you are not pulling permits I would not sweat it, but in cali we have egress and encroach codes, code always says any structure is so many feet from the property line, (call the city or county building department and ask them, whats the set back from the property line for a BBQ Island) remember that wood fence sits on the divider between you and whom ever, the side you see is yours the side the neighbor sees is theirs (even if you paid for the fence) he could sue your pants off if it ever starts fire.

 

So in light of that invite the neighbor over for a beer and some BBQ :ph34r:

 

 

We are pulling permits (for the pool) but no, not for the BBQ. We had a meeting with out GC tonight who gave the same recommendation. Call this city. I wasn't aware that was possible.

But I still may end ignoring the rules and move it the entire thing to within 2 feet of the fence. That gives me more room for fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But I still may end ignoring the rules and move it the entire thing to within 2 feet of the fence. That gives me more room for fun.

Robert I have been GC for 20 years in Cali and my wife's a real estate broker, not to piss on your parade but let me define Fun for you.

 

Fun is when you try to sell your home and every buyer declines because you did not pull a permit for the Island, and it shows up when their agent pulls a title report on your property, and they wonder what else you did illegally to modify the home and escrow cant close until the island is passed or demolished. (that goes over like a fart in church with prospective buyers my wife sees it all the time)

 

Fun is when your garage catches fire and your insurance adjuster cancels your policy because you have an un permitted fire hazard on your property that you did not notify them you built, illegally.

 

Fun is when your neighbor sues your ass off for burning down his fence.

 

Fun is when your neighbors Rat you out to the building and code enforcement and you have to demo the island you built, because no inspector will pass it without seeing all the MEPS you installed, and you are encroaching the property line.

 

Fun is when you could have simply provided a sketch to the building department and a 150 bucks for permits to forego all the aforementioned.

 

 

Again not trying piss on your parade just providing some insight :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert I have been GC for 20 years in Cali and my wife's a real estate broker, not to piss on your parade but let me define Fun for you.

 

Fun is when you try to sell your home and every buyer declines because you did not pull a permit for the Island, and it shows up when their agent pulls a title report on your property, and they wonder what else you did illegally to modify the home and escrow cant close until the island is passed or demolished. (that goes over like a fart in church with prospective buyers my wife sees it all the time)

 

Fun is when your garage catches fire and your insurance adjuster cancels your policy because you have an un permitted fire hazard on your property that you did not notify them you built, illegally.

 

Fun is when your neighbor sues your ass off for burning down his fence.

 

Fun is when your neighbors Rat you out to the building and code enforcement and you have to demo the island you built, because no inspector will pass it without seeing all the MEPS you installed, and you are encroaching the property line.

 

Fun is when you could have simply provided a sketch to the building department and a 150 bucks for permits to forego all the aforementioned.

 

 

Again not trying piss on your parade just providing some insight :ph34r:

 

 

Your not pissing on my parade in any way. I completely understand what you are saying. I will say that our gas line for the BQQ is on our permitted plans for the pool. So essentially the gas line is permitted. In this case since the gas line is already part of our permit, would I still need a permit for the island?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In this case since the gas line is already part of our permit, would I still need a permit for the island?

Yes you will, I take it your in California, if you built the Island on wheels all you would need is a permit for the Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing (MEPS) but as soon as you build any structure on the grade or slab it becomes a fixed structure, since the Gas line is in your permit the inspector will see it, in the permit and on the plans and will want to inspect it in the rough and finish just like he will the pool, which is actually great for you, he wont rip you up on the framing of the Island since it's not structural he will look for fire ratings and clearances to combustibles and will work with you up front to establish that, when he's out inspecting the rough pull him aside and ask him what he would like to see on the Island (inspectors love that) share your thoughts and get his, ask him at what stage he would like further inspections i.e don't bury or cover up anything he needs to physically see and expect him to pass it sight unseen, he will pass the whole project in a heart beat.

After completion, it will get recorded that you have a fully inspected and passed Pool and Island, when relators pull specs on your home they will show, it's a must for appraisals, refi's and sales.

Call your homeowners insurance tell them of the additions, then down the road if someone drowns, the Island explodes or burns down, a bedroom catches fire, the kitchen catches fire, you are completely covered.

 

When you do work on your home that requires permits and you don't pull them and pass them, it opens the door for the insurance company to not honor any claim, even if the Island had nothing to do with the bathroom flooding.

 

If you have a GC that is willing to work without permits you cannot sue him for bad work or work that is not up to code, thats why you hear so many home owners complain of getting hosed by bad Contractors.

 

 

 

When Do I Need a Building Permit?

A building permit is needed when your project involves:

• An addition or change to the exterior or interior of your home or any accessory structure.

• Any type of electrical, heating or plumbing work.


For exterior work, a permit is needed to:

• Replace the roof on a house or garage.

• Replace the siding on a house or garage.

• Add a screened porch or deck.

• Replacing window frames, if different sizes.

Install any type of swimming pool.

• Put up a fence.

• Build a new house, garage or storage shed.

• Adding a window or door.


For interior work, a permit is required for:

• Hot tub or whirlpool installation.

• Ceiling fan installation.

• Replacing or adding a furnace or a central air conditioner.

• Bathroom or kitchen remodeling and/or alterations.

• Replacing or adding water heaters and water softeners.

• Installation of wood stoves and all fireplaces.

• Finishing or remodeling any basement.

• Installing drain tile or a basement drainage system.

• Any interior remodeling, including kitchen cabinets. 


A building permit is NOT REQUIRED to:

• Install storm windows and screens.

• Change flooring, carpet, inlaid tiles or wood.

• Install private sidewalks on your property.

 

 

What if I don’t get a permit?

City Ordinances and State Statutes require building permits.  If you do not get a building permit when it is required, the City can legally fine you for the violation for every day the work is not in compliance.  The permit and accompanying inspections are to ensure you that the work is “up to code” and safe.  Projects not done according to code can affect your home’s insurability and potential sale.  Prospective buyers can check the City’s building records.


During the construction of your project, on-site inspections will be conducted to ensure that approved materials are properly used and the work is done to code requirements.  Any work or materials that are not up to code will need to be corrected and be re-inspected.  The inspections are for the owners and/or occupant’s health and safety, as well as protecting your investment.


Inspections required by code:

• Water and Sewer Lateral (new construction)

• Building Footings

• Building Foundation

• Building Drain Tile

• Under Basement Floor Plumbing

• Building Electric Service

• Building Rough Inspections (framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC)

• Insulation

• Final Inspections For Occupancy 
(framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, Insulation) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes you will, I take it your in California, if you built the Island on wheels all you would need is a permit for the Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing (MEPS) but as soon as you build any structure on the grade or slab it becomes a fixed structure, since the Gas line is in your permit the inspector will see it, in the permit and on the plans and will want to inspect it in the rough and finish just like he will the pool, which is actually great for you, he wont rip you up on the framing of the Island since it's not structural he will look for fire ratings and clearances to combustibles and will work with you up front to establish that, when he's out inspecting the rough pull him aside and ask him what he would like to see on the Island (inspectors love that) share your thoughts and get his, ask him at what stage he would like further inspections i.e don't bury or cover up anything he needs to physically see and expect him to pass it sight unseen, he will pass the whole project in a heart beat.

After completion, it will get recorded that you have a fully inspected and passed Pool and Island, when relators pull specs on your home they will show, it's a must for appraisals, refi's and sales.

Call your homeowners insurance tell them of the additions, then down the road if someone drowns, the Island explodes or burns down, a bedroom catches fire, the kitchen catches fire, you are completely covered.

 

When you do work on your home that requires permits and you don't pull them and pass them, it opens the door for the insurance company to not honor any claim, even if the Island had nothing to do with the bathroom flooding.

 

If you have a GC that is willing to work without permits you cannot sue him for bad work or work that is not up to code, thats why you hear so many home owners complain of getting hosed by bad Contractors.

 

 

 

When Do I Need a Building Permit?

A building permit is needed when your project involves:

• An addition or change to the exterior or interior of your home or any accessory structure.

• Any type of electrical, heating or plumbing work.


For exterior work, a permit is needed to:

• Replace the roof on a house or garage.

• Replace the siding on a house or garage.

• Add a screened porch or deck.

• Replacing window frames, if different sizes.

Install any type of swimming pool.

• Put up a fence.

• Build a new house, garage or storage shed.

• Adding a window or door.


For interior work, a permit is required for:

• Hot tub or whirlpool installation.

• Ceiling fan installation.

• Replacing or adding a furnace or a central air conditioner.

• Bathroom or kitchen remodeling and/or alterations.

• Replacing or adding water heaters and water softeners.

• Installation of wood stoves and all fireplaces.

• Finishing or remodeling any basement.

• Installing drain tile or a basement drainage system.

• Any interior remodeling, including kitchen cabinets. 


A building permit is NOT REQUIRED to:

• Install storm windows and screens.

• Change flooring, carpet, inlaid tiles or wood.

• Install private sidewalks on your property.

 

 

What if I don’t get a permit?

City Ordinances and State Statutes require building permits.  If you do not get a building permit when it is required, the City can legally fine you for the violation for every day the work is not in compliance.  The permit and accompanying inspections are to ensure you that the work is “up to code” and safe.  Projects not done according to code can affect your home’s insurability and potential sale.  Prospective buyers can check the City’s building records.


During the construction of your project, on-site inspections will be conducted to ensure that approved materials are properly used and the work is done to code requirements.  Any work or materials that are not up to code will need to be corrected and be re-inspected.  The inspections are for the owners and/or occupant’s health and safety, as well as protecting your investment.


Inspections required by code:

• Water and Sewer Lateral (new construction)

• Building Footings

• Building Foundation

• Building Drain Tile

• Under Basement Floor Plumbing

• Building Electric Service

• Building Rough Inspections (framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC)

• Insulation

• Final Inspections For Occupancy 
(framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, Insulation) 

 

 

Met with the planning and building dept at San Jose City hall. Found out that San Jose does NOT have any ordinances or rules for built in BBQ islands. Nor do they require a permit as long as we you don't go over 6 feet in height.

They do however require permits, plans, structural drawing for arbors over 120 Sq ft.

 

So now that I know the rules and regulations, I can finally begin to design the island.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Met with the planning and building dept at San Jose City hall. Found out that San Jose does NOT have any ordinances or rules for built in BBQ islands. Nor do they require a permit as long as we you don't go over 6 feet in height.

They do however require permits, plans, structural drawing for arbors over 120 Sq ft.

 

So now that I know the rules and regulations, I can finally begin to design the island.

Thats great Robert, just so we are on the same page you told them you were going to install plumbing, electrical and gas to a structure and they said no problem, no permit, but they want to see structural drawings for a tall gazebo? Lucky you I guess ;)

 

The 6' in height is all they are worried about?

I have a sneaking feeling the think your going to build a cabinet or counter around an out door grill, theres not a municipality in the USA that will let you install MEPs without a permit, otherwise they would call your pool a bird bath and not have you permit it either.......

 

Good luck with your insurance carrier........... :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats great Robert, just so we are on the same page you told them you were going to install plumbing, electrical and gas to a structure and they said no problem, no permit, but they want to see structural drawings for a tall gazebo? Lucky you I guess ;)

 

The 6' in height is all they are worried about?

I have a sneaking feeling the think your going to build a cabinet or counter around an out door grill, theres not a municipality in the USA that will let you install MEPs without a permit, otherwise they would call your pool a bird bath and not have you permit it either.......

 

Good luck with your insurance carrier........... :ph34r:

 

No, I didnt say I was doing water (for a sink) but electrical and gas yes. I know I shouldn't be doing water but I don't think water is going to burn anything down. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, I didnt say I was doing water (for a sink) but electrical and gas yes. I know I shouldn't be doing water but I don't think water is going to burn anything down. :)

You might want to get it in writing from them Robert because what I am seeing on their site says just the opposite, that way you are covered down the road, I can see the structural side of an island it's not a dwelling and is not tall enough to pose a risk, and with water they are more concerned with the sewage aspect than the service. it might not need permitting in the structure but getting to it absolutely does

when reading their requirements I don't see anywhere that the regulations say "Except if you're adding gas or electrical to BBQ Island"

 

Just saying better safe than sorry ;)

I know in California as a GC they won't let me do ANY electrical or gas without a permit, or as owner builder, hell just watch pretty soon in Cali you will need a permit to hang your christmas lights :lol:

 

 

http://www.sanjoseca.gov/building/PDFHando...6-2GasLines.pdf

http://www.sanjoseca.gov/building/PDFHando...tricalPanel.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You might want to get it in writing from them Robert because what I am seeing on their site says just the opposite, that way you are covered down the road, I can see the structural side of an island it's not a dwelling and is not tall enough to pose a risk, and with water they are more concerned with the sewage aspect than the service. it might not need permitting in the structure but getting to it absolutely does

when reading their requirements I don't see anywhere that the regulations say "Except if you're adding gas or electrical to BBQ Island"

 

Just saying better safe than sorry ;)

I know in California as a GC they won't let me do ANY electrical or gas without a permit, or as owner builder, hell just watch pretty soon in Cali you will need a permit to hang your christmas lights :lol:

 

 

http://www.sanjoseca.gov/building/PDFHando...6-2GasLines.pdf

http://www.sanjoseca.gov/building/PDFHando...tricalPanel.pdf

 

I just went back and reread all my posts and noticed one very IMPORTANT thing I left out. The gas and electric are part of my POOL permits so that is covered. When I went down to the city, I specially asked if the actual island needed a permit (and discussed the fact that gas and elec would be included but are part of another permit).

As far as water goes, I can legally have cold water and run into a hole (can't think of the formal name at this time (haven't had my coffee yet) but adding hot would require a sewer line.

 

Thanks for your concern. It is great to know people are this forum know there stuff and care about the welfare of others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just went back and reread all my posts and noticed one very IMPORTANT thing I left out. The gas and electric are part of my POOL permits so that is covered. When I went down to the city, I specially asked if the actual island needed a permit (and discussed the fact that gas and elec would be included but are part of another permit).

As far as water goes, I can legally have cold water and run into a hole (can't think of the formal name at this time (haven't had my coffee yet) but adding hot would require a sewer line.

 

Thanks for your concern. It is great to know people are this forum know there stuff and care about the welfare of others.

Yeah with water same as the pool, they want to know where the waste water will go.

 

Thats good you have a permit Robert and all along my concern is not that you blow up the neighborhood or burn it down, just the costly hassles you could face as a homeowner with no permits, now down the road that little inspection card saves you tons of grief, and of course install your appliances to manufacturers spec, if you do ever sell the house, nothing on your end will hold up escrow and your insurance can't be denied, if heaven forbid you do ever have to use it.

 

 

What kind of grill are you going to get?

I take it the electrical is for lighting and a frig.

 

Remember it's not an Island without a beer tap :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the basic layout of my island. Not sure I am set of my dimentions, but I think I am close.

 

I couldn't locate the 3D images for the drawers and doors like i had in the past so I just drew them in.

 

post-10476-1288674411_thumb.jpg

post-10476-1288674404_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like a nice design. Remember that if you have drawers and they are not water tight, when it rains, they will fill up with water.

,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×