3-2-1 method Options

[bluesin]

Well, the dinner is finished, the leftover ribs are packed away for lunches, and I've decided that though they tasted very good, I won't buy more of this sauce. It was too generic tasting, commercial like, you know what I mean? Despite the rub and the additional honey and brown sugar, it was lacking that WOW! factor. Oh well, live and learn. Still, it was a good meal - like I always said - "there ain't no such thang as a bad rib"!

Mike

Mike, can you get Open Pit?

Famous Daves was at one time doing pretty well here in Atlanta but they have closed all three locations now and did not expand into several other locations that had been planned.

I ate there a few times but as is the case with all chain resturants of this nature I just ended up longing for the backyard and my own smoker...

Bluesin

[Original KCQ]

well...the good new is that we all had a great time and enjoyed each others company...the bad news is that the brisket and ribs didnt turn out the way i wanted....the meat was pretty tough...thankfully i know how to use the gas grill...

Is that a water pan? Nix the water next time you cook. Water causes temperature instability. It will keep your temperatures unnecessarily low and waste fuel because heating and boiling water absorbs a lot of the thermal energy of the fire. When the water runs low, it will no longer drag the temp down, and your draft settings will now be too far open and your temperature will spike... or... you will run low on fuel and reload, probably refilling the water at the same time.

Fill the water pan 3/4 full with playground sand and cover it with foil so it doesn't take on grease and you can clean it up later. This will act as a heat sink, and help stabilize your temps, and cause you to use much less fuel.

Your food will not suffer without the water. You aren't steaming food, you're barbecuing food. The water does not add moisture to the meat, other than perhaps keeping the exterior of the meat damp, which actually will prevent the formation of a good bark.

Next, don't light all your charcoal at once. Google the "minion method" or look on the virtual weber bullet website for information on how to start a partial fire with extra fuel in the chamber that will burn down gradually.

You'll want to watch the temps in your cooker until they have stabilized. I suggest you start the fire with the above method, and then immediately load in the meat. Then if the temps start to get too high you can cut back the draft. It is far easier to control the temperature on the way up than on the way down, so if you start with a hot smoker and then put in the meat, it's going to be more difficult to find that point where the temps stay stable. Also, cool meat will absorb more smoke flavor so going from the fridge to the smoker won't hurt anything.

Let your cooker find it's stable point, learn what that temperature is with an oven thermometer on each rack, so you know what to expect at each level relative to the others. They will not be the same, and this affects your cooking time, and the relative temps should where you should put what meat if you are doing a mixed cook.

When you know at what temps your smoker likes to run naturally, do not fight it. You will waste a lot of time trying to fix something that is not broken. Cooking temps are relatively forgiving, and if you really want extra low temps such as 200-210 for brisket, you can cut back on inlet draft a little, but otherwise, try to just let the cooker run at it's natural level. Learn how long it takes for it to use up a load of fuel and be prepared to replace it with a fresh fire of the same (minion method) type. Or you can just add more fuel in the form of unfired wood or charcoal. Contrary to what some may say, letting the fuel light off gradually does not produce any problems with taste, unless the wood is damp or unseasoned. However if you are going to add fuel to the existing fire, you need to know how much to add per hour *after* the initial load of fuel finally starts to fade.

I guarantee you will find that with sand instead of water, your fuel will last longer and your cook temps will be more predictable.

MartyB

[Sanman023]

Is that a water pan? Nix the water next time you cook. Water causes temperature instability. It will keep your temperatures unnecessarily low and waste fuel because heating and boiling water absorbs a lot of the thermal energy of the fire. When the water runs low, it will no longer drag the temp down, and your draft settings will now be too far open and your temperature will spike... or... you will run low on fuel and reload, probably refilling the water at the same time.

Fill the water pan 3/4 full with playground sand and cover it with foil so it doesn't take on grease and you can clean it up later. This will act as a heat sink, and help stabilize your temps, and cause you to use much less fuel.

Your food will not suffer without the water. You aren't steaming food, you're barbecuing food. The water does not add moisture to the meat, other than perhaps keeping the exterior of the meat damp, which actually will prevent the formation of a good bark.

Next, don't light all your charcoal at once. Google the "minion method" or look on the virtual weber bullet website for information on how to start a partial fire with extra fuel in the chamber that will burn down gradually.

You'll want to watch the temps in your cooker until they have stabilized. I suggest you start the fire with the above method, and then immediately load in the meat. Then if the temps start to get too high you can cut back the draft. It is far easier to control the temperature on the way up than on the way down, so if you start with a hot smoker and then put in the meat, it's going to be more difficult to find that point where the temps stay stable. Also, cool meat will absorb more smoke flavor so going from the fridge to the smoker won't hurt anything.

Let your cooker find it's stable point, learn what that temperature is with an oven thermometer on each rack, so you know what to expect at each level relative to the others. They will not be the same, and this affects your cooking time, and the relative temps should where you should put what meat if you are doing a mixed cook.

When you know at what temps your smoker likes to run naturally, do not fight it. You will waste a lot of time trying to fix something that is not broken. Cooking temps are relatively forgiving, and if you really want extra low temps such as 200-210 for brisket, you can cut back on inlet draft a little, but otherwise, try to just let the cooker run at it's natural level. Learn how long it takes for it to use up a load of fuel and be prepared to replace it with a fresh fire of the same (minion method) type. Or you can just add more fuel in the form of unfired wood or charcoal. Contrary to what some may say, letting the fuel light off gradually does not produce any problems with taste, unless the wood is damp or unseasoned. However if you are going to add fuel to the existing fire, you need to know how much to add per hour *after* the initial load of fuel finally starts to fade.

I guarantee you will find that with sand instead of water, your fuel will last longer and your cook temps will be more predictable.

MartyB

thanks marty.....i will give sand a shot....i just need to steal some sand from my daughters sandbox...

[cuskit]

Mike, can you get Open Pit?

Famous Daves was at one time doing pretty well here in Atlanta but they have closed all three locations now and did not expand into several other locations that had been planned.

I ate there a few times but as is the case with all chain resturants of this nature I just ended up longing for the backyard and my own smoker...

Bluesin

Dave,

Actually, I do get Open Pit. I have (mentioned it in the past here) a client who is a wholesaler (supplied all the restaurants in the five boroughs of NYC) who gets me the "commercial" version of Open Pit. It is far superior to the bottles you get in the supermarkets. It only comes in gallons and five gallon containers. I first came across it at a pub we frequent (Main Street Saloon) which has terrific wings and ribs. They have an open grill in the center of a large, oval shaped bar, and you sit and watch them cook your food. I noticed the five gallon bucket of Open Pit they worked out of, and asked my client about it. He put me onto this, and has been supplying me with 4-5 gallons of this for many years now. Strangely, I really mostly enjoy it on our chicken, not so much on the ribs. Once in a while, for a change of pace, I'll slather that on our ribs, and it's always a very "safe" sauce to use. Very good. Not spectacular, not bad - but always good. In fact - now that you mention it, I'm longing for it right now! When I get home from work tonight (if I remember) I shoot a photo and post here tonight the gallon containers Vito gets for me. I'm not exactly sure what's different from the store sold versions, but can vouch for the incredible difference!

Mike

[Bacardi]

You gave modifying a sauce a try, Mike! I know what you mean by WOW factor, that's why I like bullseye original, tends to be the boldest of the bunch. I have tried Famous daves and was not a fan of the sauce, I also do not like Sonnys which seems to be a large chain here in the south. The great thing about experimenting with sauce is that you can use small quantities. If you already haven't, try modifying bullseye. I don't think it's better than homemade, but will save a lot of work, time and greatly reduce cleanup. I also am going your country style ribs, assuming they're cheaper!

[bluesin]

Dave,

Actually, I do get Open Pit. I have (mentioned it in the past here) a client who is a wholesaler (supplied all the restaurants in the five boroughs of NYC) who gets me the "commercial" version of Open Pit. It is far superior to the bottles you get in the supermarkets. It only comes in gallons and five gallon containers. I first came across it at a pub we frequent (Main Street Saloon) which has terrific wings and ribs. They have an open grill in the center of a large, oval shaped bar, and you sit and watch them cook your food. I noticed the five gallon bucket of Open Pit they worked out of, and asked my client about it. He put me onto this, and has been supplying me with 4-5 gallons of this for many years now. Strangely, I really mostly enjoy it on our chicken, not so much on the ribs. Once in a while, for a change of pace, I'll slather that on our ribs, and it's always a very "safe" sauce to use. Very good. Not spectacular, not bad - but always good. In fact - now that you mention it, I'm longing for it right now! When I get home from work tonight (if I remember) I shoot a photo and post here tonight the gallon containers Vito gets for me. I'm not exactly sure what's different from the store sold versions, but can vouch for the incredible difference!

Mike

I have gone through a few 1 gallon containers. I get the small bottles now and mix it half and half with Williamson Brothers. Williamson Brothers is actually thin enough that I don't have to thin the sauce down too much if I do sauce the ribs, which I have not done in quite a while...

Bluesin

[cuskit]

Okay, here is the picture I promised. The Open Pit, "restaurant recipe". I'm not sure what the difference is between this and the "retail" version, but there is a definite difference in taste! Like I said - we go through several gallons of this each year - primarily on our chicken.



Open Pit Restaurant Recipe


Mike

[bluesin]

Yep, that's the one I had. A friend got it while she was up in Chicago.

I did not know there was a difference, don't think I taste tested it though.

Here is an online source...

Bluesin

[cuskit]

Yep, that's the one I had. A friend got it while she was up in Chicago.

I did not know there was a difference, don't think I taste tested it though.

Here is an online source...

Bluesin

Thanks for the link, but like I said - my client supplies me. He refuses money as I've done tons of work for him, but I usually leave thirty or forty bucks (2-3 gallons per trip) with his wife (for the sauce - hey - watch it )!

Mike

[Original KCQ]

Okay, here is the picture I promised. The Open Pit, "restaurant recipe". I'm not sure what the difference is between this and the "retail" version, but there is a definite difference in taste! Like I said - we go through several gallons of this each year - primarily on our chicken.

Mike

I'm going to go out on a limb here, not having tasted this sauce but working on a commercial sauce myself, and say that the difference may just be in the neutral ingredients such as ketchup if it's a tomato based sauce. I can make my sauce appeal to those who don't like real spicy stuff by just thinning it with ketchup, but the essential flavor of the sauce remains, it's just less intense. That could very well be the difference in an over-the-counter version which is usually designed to appeal to everyone, where a restaurant might do better with a full flavored version, and might even thin the sauce themselves. I have kicked around the idea of selling a commercial version on just that basis... thin with ketchup as desired based on what the clientele likes, or to create a "mild" version of the sauce. I may be completely wrong, but when you said you could tell the difference between commercial and shelf versions of the sauce, it sounded familiar.

MartyB

[bluesin]

Thanks for the link, but like I said - my client supplies me. He refuses money as I've done tons of work for him, but I usually leave thirty or forty bucks (2-3 gallons per trip) with his wife (for the sauce - hey - watch it )!

Mike

Yep, that was really for the benefit of anyone else who wanted to try it...

Bluesin

[cuskit]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, not having tasted this sauce but working on a commercial sauce myself, and say that the difference may just be in the neutral ingredients such as ketchup if it's a tomato based sauce. I can make my sauce appeal to those who don't like real spicy stuff by just thinning it with ketchup, but the essential flavor of the sauce remains, it's just less intense. That could very well be the difference in an over-the-counter version which is usually designed to appeal to everyone, where a restaurant might do better with a full flavored version, and might even thin the sauce themselves. I have kicked around the idea of selling a commercial version on just that basis... thin with ketchup as desired based on what the clientele likes, or to create a "mild" version of the sauce. I may be completely wrong, but when you said you could tell the difference between commercial and shelf versions of the sauce, it sounded familiar.

MartyB

MartyB,

You could be right. I have used the retail version and thought it was "okay", but not enough to say "boy - this ones great". But when first encountered the wings and ribs at Main Street Saloon, I knew this would become one of my favorite watering holes! I probably ate there a dozen times before I noticed them refilling their mop bucket out of a five gallon pail of the Open Pit, and that's when I started asking questions. The bartenders (they rotate turns at the grill) didn't know how theirs differed from the store version - but did say that wings and ribs were their best sellers because of this sauce.

I'm not sure if there is an ingredient list on the back of these gallon containers (I believe it's a law for consumer use, but maybe not commercial use), but if so, I'll go to my grocery store and copy the list off that bottle and compare the two. I can't say whether one is thinner than the other since I haven't bought the retail bottles in over a decade or more. It is definitely tomato based with a vinegar taste, and thin - not thick like KC or those thick type. Very thin - maybe that's the secret. No need to water this one down.

Mike

[bluesin]

Very thin - maybe that's the secret. No need to water this one down.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner:>)

Believe it or not thin saucing has many benefits over a thick sauce, especially when it comes to ribs and chicken, it provides much needed moisture content, cools the surface, does not burn as easily, blends in better and you get a good sizzle/vaporization from the dripings

This is the method Don uses also, he rubs heavily, smokes in his Southern Pride, normally 25 cases of ribs or so at a time and then sauces them on his costco party grill out infront so everyone gets a good smell and view of the ribs. It works, a lot of folks come by and just say, hey I'll take that rack right there...

Dave

[cuskit]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner:>)

Believe it or not thin saucing has many benefits over a thick sauce, especially when it comes to ribs and chicken, it provides much needed moisture content, cools the surface, does not burn as easily, blends in better and you get a good sizzle/vaporization from the dripings

This is the method Don uses also, he rubs heavily, smokes in his Southern Pride, normally 25 cases of ribs or so at a time and then sauces them on his costco party grill out infront so everyone gets a good smell and view of the ribs. It works, a lot of folks come by and just say, hey I'll take that rack right there...

Dave

I searched a bit further, and found these two links on the "Restaurant Recipe" of the Open Pit.

http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/Productsan...t_bbq_sauce.htm
http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/productsan...duct&id=797

I'm not sure if the gallon you posted is indeed the Restaurant Recipe. The photo is too small to make out the wording, but it does appear that an ingredient (or % of protein, sodium, etc) list is included on the front label, which is NOT posted on the label of my gallon label. This may just be a change in graphics, my bottle that I photo'd is about a month old.

If you read the link I posted, apparently this particular sauce lends itself to the addition of "post" additives by chef's that might want to personalize the taste to their own rep. Or, as in my case (and Main Street Saloon), it can be used straight out of the bottle.

I can vouch for it being superior to just about any store bought sauces I've ever tried - and believe me - that's numbered in several dozens if not a hundred (across 40 or more years of grilling)...

I do firmly believe the thin application works best - even if "layered" on in several mops rather than one thick sauce. That's probably the secret to the really good taste of this particular sauce.

Dang it - now I'm gonna have to go home and have some more ribs for lunch!

Mike

[bluesin]

I do firmly believe the thin application works best - even if "layered" on in several mops rather than one thick sauce. That's probably the secret to the really good taste of this particular sauce.

Yep, thats really it, you can continuously baste and turn, baste and turn without any real risk of charing and burning the sauce. But it can really be done with any sauce, I thin all of my sauces down to a watery base when I actually do it...

Bluesin