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Napoleon vs. Weber vs. Broil Master

#1 User is offline   jeffsinpdx 

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 07:40 PM

Hello. New poster here and wanted folks to weigh in after I've read a number of posts.

As a little background, I live in rainy Oregon and will just be up front and honest and admit that I have never owned a grill cover and I do quite a bit of "quick lunch" grilling for my platoon of kids of simple burgers and dogs and just never have time to clean the grill except for a nice weekend once every couple months. I any grill I own simply can't get cleaned regularly given my busy schedule and I'll readily admit that up front as I know some things don't change (or at least it won't happen for a decade or so until kids get out of school and the luxury of 2-3 extra minutes in a day start to appear).

So with that said, in the past in the past 15 years since I've been married, I've owned one Craftsman $200 grill for a few years (that immediately started falling apart within a few years and not just the burners, but also the inside of the top of the grill, the drip pan, etc.). Then after that I've also owned two Weber Genesis grills that also have lasted maybe 5-6 years each. But they also have had problems the "hats/flavor bars" (I think that's what they're called" falling apart and rusting or simply getting too much grease and heat on them over time and disintegrating). So now both of my Weber grills have failed me and it seems like if you simply don't have a life-style that can keep the grease off, it will kill those Weber grills. So I'm thinking on stepping it up to something with higher quality inside components than a Weber for my next grill.

My first choice that naturally came to me was my mother-in-law's grill, as I knew she's owned that grill for the entire 15 years of my marriage, and she's never has cleaned it as long as I've known her and we grill over at her house on it all the time and it is rock solid for 15 years as good as any grill I've ever seen, never flares up and still works like new. I looked at the name the other day and it's called a "Lynx" grill and for some reason they are absurdly expensive at the couple of online retailers I found that sell those,. So all I can say is anyone ever wants to question the quality of a Lynx grill, I can attest that they are at least a hundred times better than a Weber, but you could be 10 Weber's or a new card for the price of a simple family Lynx grill, so what's the point?

So my point at the end of the day is that while I don't think grates really matter much as I haven't noticed a difference in life of grill between Stainless, Cast Iron or even Porcelain for any grill I've ever owned. I don't care much what it looks like, so not sure if Stainless, 304/430 or anything else really comes into play on the exterior as I plan on using a cover and if it stains or chips, oh well. What I do think matters is that the true parts in the inside like the "hats/flavor bars" and the burners will last me 10+ years without having to worry much about the fact that I don't clean it as much as a person with not as busy of a schedule would. I just want to make sure my grill has an even flame and nothing starts falling apart over a lifetime of having grease and flame on it.

I'm pretty confident I can't trust Weber as they've now let me know two straight grills on the "hats". So I'm looking at a Napoleon grill on Amazon that is really highly rated for quality, and about the same $700-$900 price tag as a decent Weber Genesis. I also have looked at a Broil Master as I've heard from folks they are lifetime type of quality, and they seem to sell for under a $1,000 as well. I don't want to pay $1,000+ price for some absurd Lynx when I'm just making burgers and such for the kids a dozen times a month, but have to find the happy median of something that won't fall apart just because it has some grease and oxidation on it. I felt a Weber Summit at the Big Box store and it definitely had superior interior parts to the Genesis or anything else on the floor. But they wanted $1,500 for a Summit, so they're out.

Any thoughts.
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#2 User is offline   underthehood 

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 07:32 AM

2 words "stainless steel" your Weber grills obviously did not have the stainless internal components. Also gas grills by their nature ALL gas grills must have at least some minimal maintenance. They don't have to be sterile but if you don't take out heavy accumulations they will give trouble. I don't care whose name is on the lid. The advantage a Weber gives over some is higher quality components than most and about the easiest maintenance. If you get the Genesis EP version those "hats" will be SS and will pretty much last forever.
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#3 User is offline   jeffsinpdx 

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 08:58 AM

Thanks for the response. In looking closer at my current Weber Genesis, it is a "Silver" model and the hats are some type of porcelain covered, thin metal (which is what I think led to their failure). I know I didn't pay $500 like the current Genesis, so maybe it was just an inferior model of Genesis that used inferior parts on their low-end models.

So that's good to know that any quality SS parts in the interior should last and I really only need worry about some of the other issues (such as 304 vs. 430 as I've read some SS still still stain and isn't as high quality as others).

My other lingering question that I thought I'd try and capture in this thread, but probably belongs are part of its own thread since it is completely unrelated. That is does anyone have any insight to these 2-3 online retailers that sell these Weber grills for so cheap? I'm seeing consistently the Weber Genesis and Summit and the Napoleon grills I've been looking at are within $30 or so at the big box stores, my local grill retailers, my local ACE Hardware Store and even Amazon.com, I can never find anyone selling them on a deal. But they are $200-$300 cheaper at these same three online retailers named Rainbow Appliance, Home Everything, and US Appliance. Does anyone have an opinion one way or the other about these retailers? They just get these items cheaper and turn them around cheaper and there are no issues using them vs. Amazon?

Thanks
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#4 User is offline   improv 

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 09:08 AM

Yes, you want to go with stainless steel components. But let me digress...

There's no way those Weber Genesis units you owned were completely unusable in such a short time. The "hats" are what Weber calls flavorizer bars. They obviously take the brunt of the grease and grime for the grill, so they do eventually wear out. Stainless steel flavorizers will last you a lot longer, and they are available for every Weber grill that's ever been made. They're also one of the cheapest internal components to replace. Internal components like those and the grates are where stainless steel really counts for durability. Exterior SS is just for looks and doesn't affect the grill's performance or longevity.

So yes, you will have to change out internal parts occasionally (especially if you rarely give the grill a cleaning), but there's no need to scrap the entire grill. I know many here make a hobby of buying up Webers from Craigslist and refurbishing them on the cheap for personal use or to sell for profit. Easily available and relatively cheap parts make Webers viable for a long time. That and their warranty:

http://www.webernatu...l.com/warranty/

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#5 User is offline   jeffsinpdx 

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 10:17 PM

View Postimprov, on 24 August 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

Yes, you want to go with stainless steel components. But let me digress...

There's no way those Weber Genesis units you owned were completely unusable in such a short time. The "hats" are what Weber calls flavorizer bars. They obviously take the brunt of the grease and grime for the grill, so they do eventually wear out. Stainless steel flavorizers will last you a lot longer, and they are available for every Weber grill that's ever been made. They're also one of the cheapest internal components to replace. Internal components like those and the grates are where stainless steel really counts for durability. Exterior SS is just for looks and doesn't affect the grill's performance or longevity.

So yes, you will have to change out internal parts occasionally (especially if you rarely give the grill a cleaning), but there's no need to scrap the entire grill. I know many here make a hobby of buying up Webers from Craigslist and refurbishing them on the cheap for personal use or to sell for profit. Easily available and relatively cheap parts make Webers viable for a long time. That and their warranty:

http://www.webernatu...l.com/warranty/


Good post. All my grills except the Craftsman were still probably "functional", just not pleasing to use. Just to summarize. My Craftsman lasted like 3 years and the actual burners literally started burning larger holes in them to the point where orange flame was coming out the beginning of the burner and no heat was even getting to the left of the grill. The 2nd grill was a Weber, but it was a little $200 round LP grill that I'm sure probably wasn't a Genesis. It seemed to have some issue with the inside, but the biggest problem was that it was raining down little black flakes from the inside of the lid and getting all over our food on about 20-40 straight grillings. So it was enough to just think it would never end and wasn't worth having ruined food every night or buying an entirely new lid for a couple-hundred dollar grill, but I still think it was pretty functional inside. This 3rd grill was a Weber Genesis. And there were four flavorizor bars, but the middle two have completely disinegrated and are part of the bottom of the grill. The other two are directly over the SS burners and they are collapsing in areas on top of the burners and in other areas they are there, but look like they are one good tap away from falling to dust. I'm pretty sure they are porcelain enamel and long past that two year warranty, and you're probably right I could just go try and find some new bars, but the grill honestly doesn't drain to the drip pan any longer now that the other bars have disinegrated and the cover the entire bottom of the grill and are fused in there. And the grill doesn't cook evenly. I constantly have to rotate burgers from the front left to the back right since it is way hotter at the right than the left. So it has lost all consistency now. Don't think $40 for bars are worth it. I'm just looking to get a decent Napoleon or Summit that will last me more than a decade without having to worry about it.
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#6 User is offline   underthehood 

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 08:30 AM

View Postjeffsinpdx, on 24 August 2011 - 10:17 PM, said:

Good post. All my grills except the Craftsman were still probably "functional", just not pleasing to use. Just to summarize. My Craftsman lasted like 3 years and the actual burners literally started burning larger holes in them to the point where orange flame was coming out the beginning of the burner and no heat was even getting to the left of the grill. The 2nd grill was a Weber, but it was a little $200 round LP grill that I'm sure probably wasn't a Genesis. It seemed to have some issue with the inside, but the biggest problem was that it was raining down little black flakes from the inside of the lid and getting all over our food on about 20-40 straight grillings. So it was enough to just think it would never end and wasn't worth having ruined food every night or buying an entirely new lid for a couple-hundred dollar grill, but I still think it was pretty functional inside. This 3rd grill was a Weber Genesis. And there were four flavorizor bars, but the middle two have completely disinegrated and are part of the bottom of the grill. The other two are directly over the SS burners and they are collapsing in areas on top of the burners and in other areas they are there, but look like they are one good tap away from falling to dust. I'm pretty sure they are porcelain enamel and long past that two year warranty, and you're probably right I could just go try and find some new bars, but the grill honestly doesn't drain to the drip pan any longer now that the other bars have disinegrated and the cover the entire bottom of the grill and are fused in there. And the grill doesn't cook evenly. I constantly have to rotate burgers from the front left to the back right since it is way hotter at the right than the left. So it has lost all consistency now. Don't think $40 for bars are worth it. I'm just looking to get a decent Napoleon or Summit that will last me more than a decade without having to worry about it.


Given the "care?" you give (don't give) a grill you will not be happy with anything you buy. The "flakes" you saw were carbon deposits. Cleaning the lid of that grill would have done just fine. From your description the unit was a "Q" model. Again a quick cleaning of the burner and grates would have done all you need.
As for your current description of your Genesis all I can say is what a shame to waste a nice grill like that. A Genesis, a Summit, perhaps a Napoleon (don't know have never seen a Napoleon) can last for decades but NOT without at least a LITTLE care. What's even worse is I am sure the food coming off the mess you're keeping is not as healthful or good as it should be and yet you give it to your family?! Yuuuuuuuk!
First suggestion is take some photos of what you're describing. I am sure we can give you advice and you may be surprised to learn your Genesis is totally salvageable. Also STOP using it. You are headed for a conflagration like the one which one of my neighbors had. The fire dept had to show up. They had the same attitude you do toward maintenance. None.
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#7 User is offline   jeffsinpdx 

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 02:28 PM

View Postunderthehood, on 25 August 2011 - 08:30 AM, said:

Given the "care?" you give (don't give) a grill you will not be happy with anything you buy. The "flakes" you saw were carbon deposits. Cleaning the lid of that grill would have done just fine. From your description the unit was a "Q" model. Again a quick cleaning of the burner and grates would have done all you need.
As for your current description of your Genesis all I can say is what a shame to waste a nice grill like that. A Genesis, a Summit, perhaps a Napoleon (don't know have never seen a Napoleon) can last for decades but NOT without at least a LITTLE care. What's even worse is I am sure the food coming off the mess you're keeping is not as healthful or good as it should be and yet you give it to your family?! Yuuuuuuuk!
First suggestion is take some photos of what you're describing. I am sure we can give you advice and you may be surprised to learn your Genesis is totally salvageable. Also STOP using it. You are headed for a conflagration like the one which one of my neighbors had. The fire dept had to show up. They had the same attitude you do toward maintenance. None.


Fair enough. In my own defense, I was exaggerating my amount of ďcareĒ I would give a grill knowing the way I use a grill for more routine 20 minute dinners before we run out the door every few days and knowing that life has handed me a situation where I canít clean after each time which would be optimal in a perfect world. So I was thinking of it like the dentist telling me to floss after every meal, I can nod my head and want to, but Iíll probably only have floss on my for once a day at before bed, not every meal. So that said, I do brush down the grill before I turn it on and always crank it up to high for 10 minutes while Iím picking kids up from daycare so it burns everything off that I scraped off. But I only get to strip it down to the burners about once a year, so it gets at least 50 uses between actually getting the things taken apart and fully cleaned.

That Q model probably could have just been cleaned, I just couldnít figure out what was going on. It was too small anyway, so I gave it away to someone that needed a grill and hopefully they figured it out. May not have been ruined. I do plan on giving the next model a little bit of care and buying a cover as Iím planning on going above $300 for a change, but my main focus was wanting something that I knew would last for 10+ years without rusting apart like these models tend to do. Looking closer and with the replies, Iím thinking youíre right, the new Genesis I saw looked pretty nice, the Napoleons look nice and I even got my hands on a Weber Summit 420 and it felt really high quality, so I might just go pay the $1,000 and get a Summit knowing I wonít have to worry about parts falling apart in the next decade. Thanks again for all the feedback.
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#8 User is offline   Tubby's Smokehouse 

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 03:24 PM

View Postjeffsinpdx, on 27 August 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

Fair enough. In my own defense, I was exaggerating my amount of ďcareĒ I would give a grill knowing the way I use a grill for more routine 20 minute dinners before we run out the door every few days and knowing that life has handed me a situation where I canít clean after each time which would be optimal in a perfect world. So I was thinking of it like the dentist telling me to floss after every meal, I can nod my head and want to, but Iíll probably only have floss on my for once a day at before bed, not every meal. So that said, I do brush down the grill before I turn it on and always crank it up to high for 10 minutes while Iím picking kids up from daycare so it burns everything off that I scraped off. But I only get to strip it down to the burners about once a year, so it gets at least 50 uses between actually getting the things taken apart and fully cleaned.

That Q model probably could have just been cleaned, I just couldnít figure out what was going on. It was too small anyway, so I gave it away to someone that needed a grill and hopefully they figured it out. May not have been ruined. I do plan on giving the next model a little bit of care and buying a cover as Iím planning on going above $300 for a change, but my main focus was wanting something that I knew would last for 10+ years without rusting apart like these models tend to do. Looking closer and with the replies, Iím thinking youíre right, the new Genesis I saw looked pretty nice, the Napoleons look nice and I even got my hands on a Weber Summit 420 and it felt really high quality, so I might just go pay the $1,000 and get a Summit knowing I wonít have to worry about parts falling apart in the next decade. Thanks again for all the feedback.

Jeff kinda look at your next grill like it was your car, rub the new grills chassis down with any protectant, I use WD-40 for my SS grill, do that every couple two to three months, if you use the grill often, keep the burners/fb bars free of un burnt sauces, for example you do allot of indirect cooking don't leave dripped juice and BBQ sauce, that did not get burnt off.

If you want to leave the grill out un used for long periods of time, put the grates and fb bars in the garage, take a old wash cloth with veggie oil and wipe the burners down every month or so (takes about 5 minutes) and any grill made of high quality materials will last you along time.

You don't need to spit shine the grill daily, a good made grill either you use it allot and its low maintenance, or if it goes unused allot you safe guard the bare metals, that get heated in use and left out bare for long periods of time.
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#9 User is offline   underthehood 

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:05 AM

"but my main focus was wanting something that I knew would last for 10+ years without rusting apart like these models tend to do."

This is just it. The units you're complaining about are NOT known for rusting out. Yes if you buy a model with cast iron grates or porcelain on steel grates or porcelain on steel flavorizer bars they will all eventually rust no matter how much care they are given. BUT even those will give 10+ years with only moderate care. That being said even if you don't give them that "moderate" care the parts you're complaining about are typically warranted by Weber or at the least easily and inexpensively replaced.
So in the end it does not matter if you buy a Genesis (any Genesis) a Summit, a Napoleon, a Broil King you name it. It WILL turn in to a grimy pile of junk inside of 2 years given the description of your use.
Frankly you're better off going to Wally world getting some POJ Uniflame for $169 and throwing it in the trash every year. Sorry I don't mean to seem harsh but it's the reality.
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#10 User is offline   jeffsinpdx 

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 01:30 PM

Ok. Bought a Broil King Sovrn 70 and it 's fantastic. I'll note the tip Tubby, and I do plan on giving this gem a little TLC once in a while.

And note to underthehood, as I said, I do a certain amount of care, just more monthly vs. daily. And with the sheer quantity of use it has gunk sitting on the interior parts which I do know rust apart in Weber interior components. At the same time my in-laws Lynx grill (which gets cleaned once every 100 grillings looks like new and obviously are impervious unlike my Weber), and my mothers Broilmaster has never been clean and the interior parts are like new , but both grills are absurdly expensive and out of my range. So the whole point was I knew some grills had impervious interior parts and a Weber does not. So I was looking for a $500-$800 grill that might have those high quality interior parts like the $2,000-$4,000 grills without being huge, fancy monsters and a fraction of the cost. I think I finally found it with this Broil King. Incredible quality fir $500.
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#11 User is offline   underthehood 

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 09:26 AM

View Postjeffsinpdx, on 03 September 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

Ok. Bought a Broil King Sovrn 70 and it 's fantastic. I'll note the tip Tubby, and I do plan on giving this gem a little TLC once in a while.

And note to underthehood, as I said, I do a certain amount of care, just more monthly vs. daily. And with the sheer quantity of use it has gunk sitting on the interior parts which I do know rust apart in Weber interior components. At the same time my in-laws Lynx grill (which gets cleaned once every 100 grillings looks like new and obviously are impervious unlike my Weber), and my mothers Broilmaster has never been clean and the interior parts are like new , but both grills are absurdly expensive and out of my range. So the whole point was I knew some grills had impervious interior parts and a Weber does not. So I was looking for a $500-$800 grill that might have those high quality interior parts like the $2,000-$4,000 grills without being huge, fancy monsters and a fraction of the cost. I think I finally found it with this Broil King. Incredible quality fir $500.


Good luck. It is a good product. But your assessment is off base. I am not a daily fanatic (not even fanatic). The original flavorizer bars (enameled steel) in my old Genesis lasted over 10 years. I only burned them off don't think I ever scraped them off. I just this summer replaced the original enameled cooking grates on my dad's 17 yo Genesis. And believe me getting HIM to clean it was futile. I am the only person who ever has cleaned it out for him and I don't get there often enough. So I think your observations are quite inaccurate. Where you get your observation that there are known "issues" that things rot out in a Genesis is totally off base. Have fun with your new BK. It is a very good product but trust me it will not do any more or less than your Weber did. Odds are you'll be back here at some point (if this board still exists) complaining about the BK too.
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#12 User is offline   jeffsinpdx 

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 09:33 AM

We'll see if I come back firing away at the Broil King. LOL.

Fair enough. I'm man enough to think maybe I learned something in all of the research and am willing to "meet in the middle" between getting higher quality and a little extra TLC and maybe it will be a good relationship.

I actually came back to ask a question. Now that I've stripped apart this old Genesis, I see that the burners are in good shape and the grates are in good shape (everything else is obviously in pretty good shape as it's only 5 years old). Do you know of a website where I can order some new flavorizer bars? I've been looking at grill shops and they don't carry them on any assessory shelves, so I gave up and just started shopping for new grills and hence this thread. But the more I look at this grill, I'm thinking if I order some new flavorizer bars, I'd like to clean it up, install the bars, add one of my other LP tanks and donate to a local family in need in my community. So do you know of any sites that I could type in my Genesis Silver model and find those to order?

Thanks again, it is appreciated.
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#13 User is offline   bamboofisher 

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:25 AM

View Postjeffsinpdx, on 04 September 2011 - 09:33 AM, said:

We'll see if I come back firing away at the Broil King. LOL.

Fair enough. I'm man enough to think maybe I learned something in all of the research and am willing to "meet in the middle" between getting higher quality and a little extra TLC and maybe it will be a good relationship.

I actually came back to ask a question. Now that I've stripped apart this old Genesis, I see that the burners are in good shape and the grates are in good shape (everything else is obviously in pretty good shape as it's only 5 years old). Do you know of a website where I can order some new flavorizer bars? I've been looking at grill shops and they don't carry them on any assessory shelves, so I gave up and just started shopping for new grills and hence this thread. But the more I look at this grill, I'm thinking if I order some new flavorizer bars, I'd like to clean it up, install the bars, add one of my other LP tanks and donate to a local family in need in my community. So do you know of any sites that I could type in my Genesis Silver model and find those to order?

Thanks again, it is appreciated.


If the flavorizer bars are still under warranty (since your grill is 5 years old they may be), then call Weber and they'll ship you a new set for free. If the warranty period for the bars has expired, then one option would be to contact the guy on ebay (other list members can give you his ebay member name, etc.) and have him make you a set. His are made out of 304 SS and are thinker than the ones Weber sells, and will last forever.
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