hello all...i just bought my first smoker and i can wait to try this baby out this weekend.....just cant seem to find the post on the actual procedure...only references...please point me to the right direction...thanks

Hello
Just a little information if you please.
What kind of smoker do you have (gas, wood, electric etc)
Who made it ?
What type is it (ecb, bullit, drum etc,)
What are you trying to smoke?

hello ronald...i have a brinkmann smoke king pit (bullet style) wood/charcoal with optional electric attachment (which i will not be using)...im planning to experiment with a brisket and ribs this weekend for some friends....hamburgers, links, skewers will be on the propane built in just in case it fails....

thanks

start here

Thanks grouch...im thinking about throwing in a brisket while im at it.....so heres the plan...

marinate ribs and brisket overnight....
soak the wood chips at 6:00am..
start the charcoal at 6:30am...
since theres 3 racks i will place the brisket on the bottom rack and ribs on the top two (please correct me if im wrong) at 7:00am...
smoke for 3 hours...10:00am
wrap ribs in foil and place back in the smoker for 2 hours...12:00pm
guests will start to arrive and unwrap for the final hour...1:00pm
i will fire up the propane grill for the burgers, links, skewers, etc...
if it doesnt look or taste right...i will throw it on the grill for a few mins...then the trash..

please chime in for any recommendations...ive been reading alot of posts and may have the information/tips mixed up....i will try to take plenty of pics before, during and after.....

thanks

sanman023 aka "smoking virgin"

strongly suggest NOT to soak any wood , chips or chunks

wet wood = massive white smoke = creosote = bitter taste

what you want to see is a thin light almost invisible blue smoke

10-4

well...the good new is that we all had a great time and enjoyed each others company...the bad news is that the brisket and ribs didnt turn out the way i wanted....the meat was pretty tough...thankfully i know how to use the gas grill...

023,

Well, it seems you did everything right. A couple of possibilities why things went awry:

1. Did you open the door frequently? This type of cook is a "set it and forget it". You lose too much heat if you open the door too often, then it takes too long to build up to the 225-250 again.

2. You had quite a load of meat in there - that also brings the heat level down a bit.

3. Your charcoal was not hot enough, or burned down and didn't produce enough heat. You have to maintain 225-250 for the entire duration of the smoke.

4. Maybe TOO much heat - was your temps up at 300 or more? Too much heat for too long WILL make meat tough.

Sorry they didn't turn out as well as you expected. But your back yard looks awesome!

Mike

i always blame the cow

everything looked good inside the smoker

yeah you got it right...it was pretty hard to keep the temp up at 225...because of that, i had to keep opening the door (4 times) to add more charcoal and wood chunks...(any suggestions on getting and keeping that temp?)......round 2 will be fathers day weekend....but i am just planning to smoke ribs and leave the brisket out of it........two weeks to prepare....again tips and suggestions will be appreciated..

grouch...it did look good, smell good, and even taste good...but it was like chewing on beef jerky....buddies didnt mind and volunteered to be testers anytime....

Sanman023,

It will be easier to control just ribs. I use an electric smoker, so I can't comment on the charcoal and chunks - I'll leave this to my other "more experienced with just wood/charcoal smoking" to advise you on keeping the heat high and longer with this fuel..

Mike

i may just have to use the electric attachment next time and leave the charcoal to the pros...

It looks to me like you have to much charcoal. I have a smoker with an offset firebox, I don't use but half as much as you have in that picture. Once I get mine up to temp all I need to keep the temp is 6 to 10 briquettes and 1 to 3 pieces of wood depending on the size. You have a more direct heat source than I do so I would think it should take less than mine.

hello motormouth...thanks for the suggestion....the smoker rarely got up to 225 and stayed around 200...if using less generates more heat...i will try that...maybe the temp guage on the smoker is defective...

Sanman, I would modify that smoker by cutting the lid right at the level of the first rack and adding hinges if necessary. This way you could tend the fire and add water to your pail wothout having to open the entire chamber. The heat would remain trapped in the top portion of your cooker and would be much easier to adjust (raise) to normal after adding coals and smoker wood. When you open that lid you lose more than just heat, you lose moisture as well. Just my .02. Warranty be damned.

thanks george...i was thinking something similiar...i am thinking about making a snap on attachment that fits between the chamber and the original door to cover everything down to the water pan....so when i open the door only the bottom portion is exposed....warranty still intact...

What I'm thinking is you lost heat when you opened the door, you added more coals than needed to heat it back up, thinking it was needed. With that it would make the meat tough because you actually cooked it faster.


Did you add cold coals or hot coals to the smoker? I always heat the coals in a chimney then add them to my smoker. That way their hot and will not have to come up to temp.

How may pieces of would did you add? Keep in mind that wood will add extra heat when it flames up and then a quick drop in temp when the flames go out. I don't soak the wood as that will cool down if not put the coals out as the water is released.

oops...i added fresh coal...no wonder...what about the wood chunks...do they need to heat up first?....

as im typing...i am eating my rib jerky for lunch...

No, I add the wood on top of the coals. But watch out that you don't add to much wood. It is a trial by fire; pun intended.

Use the electric attachment and call it a day...

It appears you did not cut your ribs St louis style? I've always trimmed mine, I wonder if that also hindered cooking...I would suggest looking up how to trim ribs on youtube; we could tell you here, but there's nothing like video to show you how...

Not cutting them will not cause them to be tuff. All that will do is make the ribs smaller.

ROUND 2...smoker and 4 racks of ribs versus me....this saturday....about 40 people and dads (inlcuding myself)....fathers day weekend bbq potluck...will post pics of the ribs......thank you all for the suggestions...

Good point, however it would slightly hinder the cooking but wouldn't make them tough...



We're looking forward to them! Perhaps you should try one rack before Sunday to ensure you're on the right track...

happy fathers day to all....

ribs turned out much better yesterday....i think you guys are right about having to much meat in the smoker that caused the temp to go below 225 and not enough circulation....i was able to maintain the temp between 225-250...here is the result.....thanks

Glad it worked out! I see bulls eye, (my favorite bottled sauce even though I generally use KC Masterpiece) and sweet rays. Have you tried adding 25% honey to the sauce? Makes a world of difference turning the sauce into a glaze.

Sanman: I'm happy to see you had better results! Which sauce did you actually use, or do you mix both?

Bacardi: I'm trying something new today. I'm using my "sweet rub" http://www.bbqsource-forums.com/invboard/i...ost&p=42815 and for the final sauce, instead of my own custom sauce, I'm experimenting with bottled sauce. Costco started carrying Famous Daves, so I picked up a three pak. I'm going to add some brown sugar and honey to it, and finish off my ribs on the grill with this "modified" Famous Mikes" er, I mean, Dave's.

I'll post later how it tasted. Better be good - we've no back-ups for dinner tonight...


Famous Daves
Click to view attachment

Mike

Well, the dinner is finished, the leftover ribs are packed away for lunches, and I've decided that though they tasted very good, I won't buy more of this sauce. It was too generic tasting, commercial like, you know what I mean? Despite the rub and the additional honey and brown sugar, it was lacking that WOW! factor. Oh well, live and learn. Still, it was a good meal - like I always said - "there ain't no such thang as a bad rib"!

Mike

i only used the rub during the smoking process...the sauce is for dipping....my favorite is sweet rays..

i will have to try adding honey to the sauce....

Mike, can you get Open Pit?

Famous Daves was at one time doing pretty well here in Atlanta but they have closed all three locations now and did not expand into several other locations that had been planned.

I ate there a few times but as is the case with all chain resturants of this nature I just ended up longing for the backyard and my own smoker...

Bluesin

Is that a water pan? Nix the water next time you cook. Water causes temperature instability. It will keep your temperatures unnecessarily low and waste fuel because heating and boiling water absorbs a lot of the thermal energy of the fire. When the water runs low, it will no longer drag the temp down, and your draft settings will now be too far open and your temperature will spike... or... you will run low on fuel and reload, probably refilling the water at the same time.

Fill the water pan 3/4 full with playground sand and cover it with foil so it doesn't take on grease and you can clean it up later. This will act as a heat sink, and help stabilize your temps, and cause you to use much less fuel.

Your food will not suffer without the water. You aren't steaming food, you're barbecuing food. The water does not add moisture to the meat, other than perhaps keeping the exterior of the meat damp, which actually will prevent the formation of a good bark.

Next, don't light all your charcoal at once. Google the "minion method" or look on the virtual weber bullet website for information on how to start a partial fire with extra fuel in the chamber that will burn down gradually.

You'll want to watch the temps in your cooker until they have stabilized. I suggest you start the fire with the above method, and then immediately load in the meat. Then if the temps start to get too high you can cut back the draft. It is far easier to control the temperature on the way up than on the way down, so if you start with a hot smoker and then put in the meat, it's going to be more difficult to find that point where the temps stay stable. Also, cool meat will absorb more smoke flavor so going from the fridge to the smoker won't hurt anything.

Let your cooker find it's stable point, learn what that temperature is with an oven thermometer on each rack, so you know what to expect at each level relative to the others. They will not be the same, and this affects your cooking time, and the relative temps should where you should put what meat if you are doing a mixed cook.

When you know at what temps your smoker likes to run naturally, do not fight it. You will waste a lot of time trying to fix something that is not broken. Cooking temps are relatively forgiving, and if you really want extra low temps such as 200-210 for brisket, you can cut back on inlet draft a little, but otherwise, try to just let the cooker run at it's natural level. Learn how long it takes for it to use up a load of fuel and be prepared to replace it with a fresh fire of the same (minion method) type. Or you can just add more fuel in the form of unfired wood or charcoal. Contrary to what some may say, letting the fuel light off gradually does not produce any problems with taste, unless the wood is damp or unseasoned. However if you are going to add fuel to the existing fire, you need to know how much to add per hour *after* the initial load of fuel finally starts to fade.

I guarantee you will find that with sand instead of water, your fuel will last longer and your cook temps will be more predictable.

MartyB

thanks marty.....i will give sand a shot....i just need to steal some sand from my daughters sandbox...

Dave,

Actually, I do get Open Pit. I have (mentioned it in the past here) a client who is a wholesaler (supplied all the restaurants in the five boroughs of NYC) who gets me the "commercial" version of Open Pit. It is far superior to the bottles you get in the supermarkets. It only comes in gallons and five gallon containers. I first came across it at a pub we frequent (Main Street Saloon) which has terrific wings and ribs. They have an open grill in the center of a large, oval shaped bar, and you sit and watch them cook your food. I noticed the five gallon bucket of Open Pit they worked out of, and asked my client about it. He put me onto this, and has been supplying me with 4-5 gallons of this for many years now. Strangely, I really mostly enjoy it on our chicken, not so much on the ribs. Once in a while, for a change of pace, I'll slather that on our ribs, and it's always a very "safe" sauce to use. Very good. Not spectacular, not bad - but always good. In fact - now that you mention it, I'm longing for it right now! When I get home from work tonight (if I remember) I shoot a photo and post here tonight the gallon containers Vito gets for me. I'm not exactly sure what's different from the store sold versions, but can vouch for the incredible difference!

Mike

You gave modifying a sauce a try, Mike! I know what you mean by WOW factor, that's why I like bullseye original, tends to be the boldest of the bunch. I have tried Famous daves and was not a fan of the sauce, I also do not like Sonnys which seems to be a large chain here in the south. The great thing about experimenting with sauce is that you can use small quantities. If you already haven't, try modifying bullseye. I don't think it's better than homemade, but will save a lot of work, time and greatly reduce cleanup. I also am going your country style ribs, assuming they're cheaper!

I have gone through a few 1 gallon containers. I get the small bottles now and mix it half and half with Williamson Brothers. Williamson Brothers is actually thin enough that I don't have to thin the sauce down too much if I do sauce the ribs, which I have not done in quite a while...

Bluesin

Okay, here is the picture I promised. The Open Pit, "restaurant recipe". I'm not sure what the difference is between this and the "retail" version, but there is a definite difference in taste! Like I said - we go through several gallons of this each year - primarily on our chicken.



Open Pit Restaurant Recipe
Click to view attachment

Mike

Yep, that's the one I had. A friend got it while she was up in Chicago.

I did not know there was a difference, don't think I taste tested it though.

Here is an online source...

Bluesin

Thanks for the link, but like I said - my client supplies me. He refuses money as I've done tons of work for him, but I usually leave thirty or forty bucks (2-3 gallons per trip) with his wife (for the sauce - hey - watch it )!

Mike

I'm going to go out on a limb here, not having tasted this sauce but working on a commercial sauce myself, and say that the difference may just be in the neutral ingredients such as ketchup if it's a tomato based sauce. I can make my sauce appeal to those who don't like real spicy stuff by just thinning it with ketchup, but the essential flavor of the sauce remains, it's just less intense. That could very well be the difference in an over-the-counter version which is usually designed to appeal to everyone, where a restaurant might do better with a full flavored version, and might even thin the sauce themselves. I have kicked around the idea of selling a commercial version on just that basis... thin with ketchup as desired based on what the clientele likes, or to create a "mild" version of the sauce. I may be completely wrong, but when you said you could tell the difference between commercial and shelf versions of the sauce, it sounded familiar.

MartyB

Yep, that was really for the benefit of anyone else who wanted to try it...

Bluesin

MartyB,

You could be right. I have used the retail version and thought it was "okay", but not enough to say "boy - this ones great". But when first encountered the wings and ribs at Main Street Saloon, I knew this would become one of my favorite watering holes! I probably ate there a dozen times before I noticed them refilling their mop bucket out of a five gallon pail of the Open Pit, and that's when I started asking questions. The bartenders (they rotate turns at the grill) didn't know how theirs differed from the store version - but did say that wings and ribs were their best sellers because of this sauce.

I'm not sure if there is an ingredient list on the back of these gallon containers (I believe it's a law for consumer use, but maybe not commercial use), but if so, I'll go to my grocery store and copy the list off that bottle and compare the two. I can't say whether one is thinner than the other since I haven't bought the retail bottles in over a decade or more. It is definitely tomato based with a vinegar taste, and thin - not thick like KC or those thick type. Very thin - maybe that's the secret. No need to water this one down.

Mike

Ding ding ding, we have a winner:>)

Believe it or not thin saucing has many benefits over a thick sauce, especially when it comes to ribs and chicken, it provides much needed moisture content, cools the surface, does not burn as easily, blends in better and you get a good sizzle/vaporization from the dripings

This is the method Don uses also, he rubs heavily, smokes in his Southern Pride, normally 25 cases of ribs or so at a time and then sauces them on his costco party grill out infront so everyone gets a good smell and view of the ribs. It works, a lot of folks come by and just say, hey I'll take that rack right there...

Dave

I searched a bit further, and found these two links on the "Restaurant Recipe" of the Open Pit.

http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/Productsan...t_bbq_sauce.htm
http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/productsan...duct&id=797

I'm not sure if the gallon you posted is indeed the Restaurant Recipe. The photo is too small to make out the wording, but it does appear that an ingredient (or % of protein, sodium, etc) list is included on the front label, which is NOT posted on the label of my gallon label. This may just be a change in graphics, my bottle that I photo'd is about a month old.

If you read the link I posted, apparently this particular sauce lends itself to the addition of "post" additives by chef's that might want to personalize the taste to their own rep. Or, as in my case (and Main Street Saloon), it can be used straight out of the bottle.

I can vouch for it being superior to just about any store bought sauces I've ever tried - and believe me - that's numbered in several dozens if not a hundred (across 40 or more years of grilling)...

I do firmly believe the thin application works best - even if "layered" on in several mops rather than one thick sauce. That's probably the secret to the really good taste of this particular sauce.

Dang it - now I'm gonna have to go home and have some more ribs for lunch!

Mike

Yep, thats really it, you can continuously baste and turn, baste and turn without any real risk of charing and burning the sauce. But it can really be done with any sauce, I thin all of my sauces down to a watery base when I actually do it...

Bluesin

On the first link Kraft states the sauce is "formulated to withstand high cooking temperatures."

I definitely would like to see the ingredient list.

I wonder if it is just the fact that it's thin or if there is a lot of emulsified fat in the sauce.

BTW the prepared foods I buy from Restaurant Depot have ingredients listed but not necessarily a nutritional label. This seems to be true for bulk products where is it assumed they will be incorporated as ingredients or divided into servings, for example, 5 or 10 lb bulk pasta salad.

MartyB

Answering my own question by reading the second link, there seems to be zero fat content, at least, there is not enough to register in a two tablespoon serving. So that isn't a factor in their statement that it's formulated for high heat cooking.

OTOH, the sodium content in this stuff is outrageous! 440 mg, 18% of recommended salt intake in just two tablespoons of sauce. That's not even enough sauce to get me through half an order of french fries! Not that it's necessarily atypical, but it's certainly unnecessary.

It's really interesting that Kraft posts a nutritional analysis, but not ingredients. Their little disclaimer in the lower right corner directs you to read the ingredient label on the package for the most accurate information.

What always kills me about the salt is that it's just not necessary to use so much salt to get good flavor. Other spices and seasonings easily combine to create savory flavor without driving up everyone's blood pressure. As someone who needs to be careful about blood pressure, and also from the point of view of having always cooked with minimal amounts of salt, I guess I don't appreciate the short cut. But then it's for food service, and that is an area which is notorious for going heavy on fat and salt

It makes me wonder what the nutritional label says about salt on the small bottles sold for consumer use.

MartyB

I'll be home within two hours, so I'll check the back of my gallon container. But... to my recollection (which fails most of the time anymore) there was no labeling except the front.

Mike

I started cooking very young, but didn't star EXPERIMENTING until the late 90s, everything was about salt and every chef was pushing kosher salt. Has this always been the case?

Most prepared sauces have a high quantity of salt. Mainly because salt is a "natural" preservative, allowing bottles to sit on the shelf indefinitely. Not only do they add salt for taste, but things like sodium benzoate (tasteless salt, but still sodium) for the preservative qualities.

Since we've gotten around to sauce - has anyone used this?


Click to view attachment,

It is made here in AZ and named after a small three outlet chain that I do believe have now all closed. I use this a lot, especially on ribs. Not sure of it's availability, but it is every grocery store in AZ - including Kroger, Safeway, etc. It comes in various flavors, hickory, mesquite, hot and spicy, etc. I checked the label and it only (only???) has 260 mg sodium per 2 tbsp - 11% of daily req.

Good stuff for a bottle!